The MOST Important Meal of the Day

Now if I say that this whole story is incorrect and that there is actually no scientific proof to back it up except one research that everybody seems to quote over and over again about the famous “window of opportunity” which was done way back on 70 year old men financed by a company who’s protein shake was used after the workout :) nobody would take me seriously cos hey you guys are experts and I’m just a John Doe.

For being someone with a problem with insuline spikes it sounds disasterous. Whey+sugar sounds as it should tast like sweetened skim milk, most people would love it.

What effect would this drink have from a fat loss perspective?

I read somewhere that Insulins effects are so powerful that they can counteract other hormones in the body i.e catecholamines, HSL, GH etc, the ones we are probably trying to raise to release fatty acids from the fat cells.

I can see where this drink may be useful from a performance and muscle building standpoint but for fatloss I’d give it a miss. Again I’m no expert but it just doesn’t make sense. If you raise Insulin you reduce cortisol and store nutrients but if Insulin is raised and the body is in storage mode how do you then break down bodyfat?

What would be a good substitute for those of us who have lactose intolerance or dairy allergies?

Maltodextrin is more-or-less tastless, so mixing it with whey protein isolate does nothing to disguise the foul taste of the whey.

Lucky, that’s very interesting!

Holly Rigsby is recommending prograde too.

I don’t know I’m of the opinion after reading so many other blogs that it is not required at all.

I can’t take malt or dex because my skin gets itchy and irritated. I do agree with Joel. I learned this from Vince and it just works for me. It made a huge difference. The drink DURING the workout is extremely important for me. I used to feel either too sluggish because of a heavy pre-workout meal or with too little fuel when the meal was light. The during workout drink solved the problem.

What I do is I mix Gatorade (simple sugars) and whey isolates which I buy in pure form no mixes.

It works.

Of course the “#1″ way to get this “Miracle” drink is on sale now! What was it about mixing Protein Shakes with water instead of milk, to avoid an insulin spike? You guys seem to have a different theory every week- most of them founded on dodgy science (?)

I’ve heard this from my local supplement store guy as well. He may be quoting the same original source of course, but at least it’s one more source supporting this theory about the “window”.

There are plenty of whey/maltodextrin gainer/bulk mixtures out there so if you don’t feel like buying the one Joel recommends, out of principle, you don’t have to.

I saw a short video with one of Joels affiliates, Vince Delmonte, who made a post-workout shake where he had maltodextrine, whey protein, chocolate milk and a banana. For fatloss he recommended removing the chocolate milk and the banana, i.e just whey protein, maltodextrine and water to reduce sugar and overall calories.

i live in South Africa. When will Prograde be shipping to this side of the world?

I was with you on your thinking until you started pushing this Prograde stuff, Joel. If you can come up with the same logic without us needing to invest in this company that you’re hooked up, I’ll be more willing to follow you. I also didn’t appreciate that you had to add “in a non-gay way” ~ as if you were afraid that by expressing your love for a friend that you’d be ashamed that we might think you were gay. Nothing to be ashamed of, whether you are gay or not. And if I can’t get my body in shape without buying Prograde, I’m in trouble.

Some interesting comments here, so i felt compelled to offer my views. Joel is largely, but not entirely, correct:

Here are the facts:

- The window of opportunity, pre and post workout, to enhance muscle building and recovery after resistance (NOT cardio) training via protein and carb consumption has been scientifically proven many times, and NO serious person would recommend not consuming something before, during and after a workout (or at least the latter)

- JM has cited Whey and Malto as the best source at this time – this is due to the fast absorption rates of these, i.e. they will get into the bloodstream and muscles faster than the alternatives. However, you could just as easily have a banana and some chicken after your work-out – I usually mix a berry smoothie with a protein blend, which has other nutritional benefits as well

- Despite the above, a pure whey protein source is not optimal for this period, as it is absorbed TOO fast: it is better to have a protein blend with a whey bias – there was an excellent article of T-Nation written about which is the best protein to have at what times and it cites all the research. Look it up but basically a whey/casein/egg albumin mix would be great, as it allows protein synthesis over a longer period of time as well

- Your body is actually primed for muscle building for c. 4-6 hours after this (in theory for 48 hours), and you could happily eat a large amount of protein and reasonable carbs in this pwo period (keeping fat low)

- there are numerous studies showing that consumption of carbs and protein (with little fat) during this period results in no fat gain. That said for carb sensitive individuals or those with say greater than 15% body fat, a 2:1 ratio is probably too high, as the focus should be on body fat reduction. Trial and error should determine what works for you

- There are some comments re. insulin response. Just to be clear, you are trying to stimulate insulin production in this period – insulin is an anabolic hormone and well help stimulate muscle growth – hence the widespread abuse of insulin injections meant for diabetes treatment amongst powerlifters and body builders. In fact, some say that the best way is to create two spikes – once immediately pwo and one an hour later, say during dinner

I believe I need to agree with Vaseem, It appears to be the logical way to go. I also don’t ;;like the pushing of a product it this type of forum. I know JM is trying to make money but some of us do not have a job so we need to go the cheaper route. Juice and protein, works and taste great.
Enjoy life

Originally Posted By LuckyNow if I say that this whole story is incorrect and that there is actually no scientific proof to back it up except one research that everybody seems to quote over and over again about the famous “window of opportunity” which was done way back on 70 year old men financed by a company who’s protein shake was used after the workout :) nobody would take me seriously cos hey you guys are experts and I’m just a John Doe.

Agreed. :)

yes a during workout drink will help to some extent if building muscle but u definately do not want this if doing cardio…u would just burn the sugars you’re drinking…

@Scoth –

For fat loss, use 10g BCAAs post-workout (Ice, Xtend, etc) instead of a carb/protein drink.

For people like myself who can’t use MSG in its numerous forms maltodextrin and whey protein isolate are a no no. Stick to the natural methods.

man, theres some bitter sounding cats that post in these blogs sometimes… i dont really see where the animosity comes from here. sure hes pushing a product. hes behind that product because it is good quality. hes gotta make a little money.. its not like hes suggesting a bad supplement. then i could see why some ppl may be offended or feel the need to speak up. but really, i think this amounts to joel having found a great company with great quality, so if he were to suggest something, this is it. whats the problem? if you dont wanna buy it, dont buy it. i may or may not buy it, but either way im not gonna come to his blog to blast him for telling me about a product hes gotten behind. or that he likes, and is now telling us about it.

get outside, get off your computer. you sound bitter.

anyway back on topic. i use universal’s ‘torrent’ right now. do you have any feelings in regards to this product? im gonna compare the two and maybe jump over to the prograde to try it out for a bit…

thanks for the tips and i hope the negativity here doesnt get you down today ;)

peace, jamie.

Hey JM…..Gave some serious thought to what you said and some makes sense but I do not feel that Prograde is the way to go. Just reading the label on the meal replacement drink that has artifical ingredients turned me right off and the high sugar content in the pre & post workout drink didn’t do much for me either.

@Jamie – sorry one more thing.. i cant find the serving amount for each bottle on the site… can you tell me where to look for that?
thanks again.

never mind, i found it ;)

did you have to say “in a totally non-gay way”?

i dont see any artificial flavours listed there. anyway i wanted to make another point. i get Dr. Mercola’s newsletters all the time. hes always suggesting supplements for us to buy. the best supplements in fact. and usually or possibly always, theyre ones that his team has created.
hes a respected Dr. and hes also trying to make money. so hes suggesting, or ‘pushing’, his products… or sometimes not his own products but ones he supports, as they are top quality and the best possible product we could buy with our money. so is this a shady practice on his behalf? or is he just trying to give us the best quality supplements while making a living at the same time.

know what im saying?

I know im spamming the hell out of this blog at this point lol but i just gotta add (seeing as someone with the same name just commented on it)…

“in a totally non-gay way”

it was a joke people! ease up! jeeze. i would bet you 97% of gay ppl who were to look at this would not get offended. its the straight, politically right silly ppl who would have issues with that statement.
i am a house dj. i know lots of gay ppl. up tight straight ppl who feel the need to fight for gay rights when there is no need for it, are the ones who would have issues with such a statement.
get over it. its only words. its only a joke. this is only the internet.
go outside.

do you reccoemend this supplement even during the core phase of your CTL diet?

Hey Joel, you did a great job researching artificial sweetners studies. How about researching studies to support the “window of opportunity”.

My body won’t deal with Whey. Can I use rice protein combined with plain yogurt?

I have heard about the ‘window of opportunity’ for years. Whether it is fact or fiction, I always follow a weight training session with a high carb + high protein shake as soon as possible after the workout. Is it absolutely the number one thing to do above anything else from a meal standpoint? I doubt it, otherwise there would be a lot more people walking around that look like bodybuilders; however it certainly makes sense to replenish your body after a workout.

I have nothing against Prograde or any other supplement company that sells a post-workout product. However, my thinking is, why pay a premium price for sugar? Check the price/serving on these products, and you will see they are quite expensive. I don’t mind Joel recommending a product, but I don’t agree with his statements that basically say, if you mix it a post-workout shake yourself it is going to taste like crap, so buy one instead.

Buy a bag of dextrose and some whey protein powder, and mix them together. As for the 2:1 ratio, it isn’t rocket science. The whey protein will tell you the grams of protein per serving. Dextrose is pure, so 1 gram weight is 1 gram carb. Done. Is it sweet? Sure, any product would be. Do I have to hold my nose and down it as though it were cod liver oil? No way. If you want to get more creative, there are also sources of maltodextrin available, so do half malto, half dextrose.

I do have a question for Joel. Most of the references for the post-workout shake suggest consuming a lot more protein than the 14g that Prograde provides. Is 14g enough?

One of the most frequently asked questions trainers receive from their clients is “What supplements should I take?”. What protein powder do you recommend?”
Joel merely was answering what he gets asked all the time. Remember the start of the story? Someone walked up to him as asked what he was drinking. So he told her. He thought many more might be interested because he gets asked all the time. If you don’t do purchased supplements good on you. Some people look for the convenience of a purchased product. Some people are still knew and don’t know what to look for or how to put it together naturally for themselves. Some people are at the beginning of their fitness journey and will come to the point where they know they can do it on their own.

Hi People, well after reading the blog, and then the comments, i must say I’m a bit surprised at both, first protein mixes are not good substitute for regular balanced diet with extra protein/carb/etc to build muscle and less to loose fat, as long is it’s still healthy and you get enough of each, but the only way to build muscle or loose fat it to work it, have a look at the guys who are looking best in the gym and they’re the ones who work themselves sufficiently to get to their goals !!
I’ve seen loads of rubbish about different supplements, this one looses your fat, that one gains you muscle, facts are no matter how much or how little you use supplements without working your body you’ll never get the results you desire, that said thanks Joel for trying.

I agree with the person above about you guys being bitter. Incase you havn’t noticed, this is Joels job! Affiliate Marketing may not be his main source of income, probably not even close, but it’s not like he is recommending prograde without drinking it himself. Yea, I could see people being pissed if he was recommending supplements that he didn’t take himself.
About there being a lot of sugar in the shakes, what do you think dextrose is? I have two huge bags of pure dextrose in my kitchen that I take all the time. You will NOT gain an once of fat if you understand the concept of nutrient timing. I down two shakes of 75 grams of dextrose during my window three times a week and I maintain single digit body fat. Now if I did that right before I went to bed three times a weeek, different story.

I have 2 question/comments.

What about creating insulin spikes when insulin resistance (diabetes) is involved?

What if I am allergic to milk and to soy?

@Carl – I’m very lactose intolerant and most protein isolate’s are fine for me. I’ve never tried prograde but I take gaspari nutrition protein powder after a workout and no tummy trouble’s.

Originally Posted By jamiedid you have to say “in a totally non-gay way”?

I know that Jamie retracted this comment, but I agree with it and with Lee. It was uncalled for. Is Joel just trying to remind us that he’s not gay? Why does he feel the need for that? Is being gay a bad thing?

@Joel Marion –
SOrry about the pushing thing. I believe that Prograde is an excellent comp. IE their cravers are great. As I have read the form it is one of the best I have seen, isn’t great we live in afree country. I believe much of the negativity is due to the fact there are so much bad info out there it is sometimes hard to separate them. I do trust your judgment but I did also lose my job last week , hence the juice and protein way of doing things.
Enjoy

@Joel Marion –

Joel,

After having spent 2 years as a competitive powerlifter (starting @ 42/female), I support your MOST IMPORTANT MEAL theory. I went from sedentary to starting to get into shape to competing in 5 mos and placed at every single event I competed in – if it hadn’t been for those pre-, during-, and post-workout drinks I probably wouldn’t have made it through.

I worked full-time (45 mile commute ea way per day), raising 2 teenagers, doing college full-time (12 credits per term or more), taking care of my elderly mother, and finishing a nasty divorce – on top of competitions & 3 times a week heavy lifting workouts (averaged 2-3 hours per workout). The only thing that kept my energy up, my lifting strong, and my bounce back short was those drinks.

I can’t wait to try Prograde myself. I haven’t lifted in 4 yrs, had to break from my coach because he was trying to get me to take steroids (even tried slipping them to me) and I won’t do that to my body!

Hang tough, keep promoting what you know is right, and let the negative comments roll off your back, Joel. What works for the serious person will either be criticized or negated by the masses!!!

As long as we are on the subject maybe you could answer a question for me . I was told that being O type blood that I should not be taking whey protein. That I should be doing other types of protein because it would not blote me as much. I am not sure I believe that in its entirety because there are so many with O type blood out there it would really kill the protein biz. Any comment on that??
Thanks
Rich

Hey, Joel. Was that woman really interested in what you were drinking, or was she just hitting on you? lol. Maybe you missed out there. Was she cute like Wende ?( my body won’t deal with whey)-no way. Sorry. Just feeling a bit silly, but in a totally no gay way.

Hi Joel,
The program is great for seeing results fast. I really just wish that healthy foods would be promoted more even for the cheat days. One can still be thin eating unhealthy greasy burgers and donuts but there is so much damage being done to their cells that the scale wouldn’t tell them that. Diabetes and hypertension are on the rise, so please lets promote living HEALTHY and not so much focus on what our dress size is.
Cheers,
Mary

I have questions RE this exchange (possibly falling into the “severely overweight category and therefore needing some kind of modified approach):

- there are numerous studies showing that consumption of carbs and protein (with little fat) during this period results in no fat gain. That said for carb sensitive individuals or those with say greater than 15% body fat, a 2:1 ratio is probably too high, as the focus should be on body fat reduction. Trial and error should determine what works for you

Somewhat agreed, but I would only recommend going with a lower carb protein supplement post-workout for those who are severely overweight.
- – – – – – -
The Question(s): Joel, I just bought your CYWT program b/c I have been working out with a great trainer (Doug Brignole, Mr. America, Mr. Universe 1986) but I have not been losing any weight or any fat at all. I am 67, female, 5ft 4inches, and I weigh 195 pounds and it’s driving me buggy not to have lost any fat or weight after 6 weeks of 30-40 min. combined resistance and HIIT 3 times a week. Would you consider me to be “severely overweight” and therefore someone who should follow a lower carb recovery approach? If so, what to do/use?? I was drinking Beach Body’s “P90X Results and Recovery Formula” which has 36g sugar and 10g protein. Is that formulation incorrect? Doug my trainer told me I don’t need any recovery formula at all; he says to just eat something. I am very confused at this point regarding what to do. I want to get to around 130-135lbs. I weighed 118-122 in my 20′s and that was a good weight for me then. I am quite muscular in the lower body but am a well buttered bun now overall and hate how I look – arms much too big and getting flabby, way too much stomach, thighs too fat, etc. If I fall into the “severely overweight” category (my body fat per the Tanita scale, which I bought yesterday upon your recommendation, shows body fat at 42.5%), what should I do about pre- and post-recovery consumption (a drink, something else??) Thanks

So couldn’t this approach be just as effective using a zero sugar whey isolate drink. There’s one company that specialized in the micronized whey isolate that comes in flavors similar to gatorade. Most have some sort of sugar but they have two that have no sugar and I think about 20 grams of protein per serving.

Additional comments to go with my question about what sort of pre-and post-recovery drink is appropriate for me as a very overweight 67 yo woman: Since I am 67, I have taken all the recommended anti-aging steps and am under the care of an anti-aging doctor. These steps include Nature Thyroid, all the compounding pharmacy hormones – progesterone, bi-est, testosterone, & pregnenalone, plus DHEA, adrenal support, and doctor-prescribed HGH – and I eat amazingly healthily – veges, meats, good fats, almost no desserts ever (no real attraction to sugar). Most workout and diet programs successes involve people in their 50′s at most. I would LOVE it to hear more about achievements with people in my age range/fat range. I feel terrific, look good, BUT buying size 16 was never my idea of me and I can no longer keep my balance easily on a horse, my primary beloved form of recreation. Help!

Joel, I notice you answered the question below mine but you didn’t answer mine. I need to know what I should be doing in terms of pre-post recovery drink, if any, given my weight. You suggest that a “lower carb protein supplement post workout for those who are severely overweight” but you don’t indicate what that would be. It seems your focus is on muscle building, not fat loss. I am all for having the muscles but no one will ever see them under this fat. How to address this issue of whether or not to use a drink at all and if so, what drink/what ratios of carb/protein. Thanks.

Originally Posted By Joel MarionTo the people who seemingly don’t like anyone selling anything on the internet:

First, re: Prograde.

I recommend Prograde because I trust them and feel comfortable recommending their stuff to my readers. I value every single person who is on my subscriber list and frankly, I’m here to protect you.

Prograde is a company that is operated with integrity, something that is few and far between in the supplement industry.

As someone who actually works in this industry, I have somewhat of an insiders point of view.

I’ve both experienced things firsthand and I’ve heard even worse stories from very well-respected colleagues who’ve actually worked for some of the “big gun” supplement companies out there.

To be blunt, you wouldn’t believe some of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. It’s disgusting. No integrity. All about making a buck.

If my recommending supplements was about “making money”, I sure as hell wouldn’t be recommending Prograde.

They don’t sell any “sexy” supplements at all. Nothing with mass appeal.

No NO2, no testosterone boosters, no fat burners, no state-of-the-art creatine complexes, nothing.

And you know what? The profit margin on those types of products is about a HUNDRED times higher than meal replacements and fish oil.

But they’d rather give you something quality in return for your hard-earned money, instead of pulling the wool over your eyes with hype and scamming you into believing that something other than steroids is going to increase testosterone levels by more than 400%.

And you know what? They take a hit on sales and profits…bigtime.

But that’s called integrity. And that’s why I associate with them because I operate the same way.

Frankly, I get asked to promote something literally every day. How do I choose what to promote? I promote what I believe in. I promote things that I know will help you.

Do I make comissions? Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. I promote plenty of things without ever making a penny on the product. Why? Because if I think it will help you, I will let you know about it…and if I think it sucks, I won’t even think twice about promoting it even for 100% comission.

What I provide with my newsletter and blog is a service. Instead of having to sort through the million and one worthless fitness products, supplements, gadgets, programs, etc…you get access to my knowledge, research, and expertise when making decisions.

You don’t have to buy anything I recommend, but when people do, they do so with the confidence that I will always only point them in the direction of things that will have a positive impact on their body and mind.

And that’s essentially why more than 70,000 people regularly trust me and come to this site for direction.

So if you have an issue with me sharing solid content and information and then recommending a stand-up product by an integrity-driven company to satisfy that information and research, then I’m afraid you’ve terribly missed the boat.

I’m here to help you, first and foremost–everything else operates under that umbrella of integrity (and sure, it costs me profits and revenue, too, but I’d rather have my self-respect than a mansion in the Hamptons).

-Joel

Joel, I appreciate this. Thank you for articulating it. I think what set me off this morning (and I would really love you to respond to this) is that from my perspective when you promote something as a “magic bullet” (my interpretation of what you were saying) without also offering at least a close alternative for people who are not in a position to buy expensive products like Prograde (and I understand the quality that you talk about), I just get a little suspicious. I want to be able to cheat my way thin without having to buy a supplement. And maybe I came in at too late a point, but in the first weeks and months I was following you, I didn’t hear anything about buying supplements. I was under the impression that I could do this from my own kitchen without having to purchase anything that I can’t get from my garden or local grocery. It wasn’t until after I purchased your information that I realized that in the meal plan you were suggesting, every single day for the pre-bedtime snack the ONLY plan you offered was Prograde Lean Nutrition Shake. I have to admit that I felt a bit duped. I would have felt entirely differently if you’d offered the Prograde suggestion AND an alternative that I didn’t have to mail-order. Do you see where I’m coming from? So, I guess what I am inviting you to do is to couple your Prograde promotion with something grassroots as well. In other words, please give me some idea of what you recommend in the meal plan for a pre-bedtime snack that doesn’t have to be dependent on Prograde. So, it’s actually not Prograde or your promotion of it that I’m against, it’s that I feel you’ve left out the alternative for those of us who can’t or aren’t interested in purchasing Prograde. I don’t always have a chance to read everything you post, so you may have already addressed this issue elsewhere ~ and if that’s true, could you please re-post it? Thank you. ~ Lee

Joel

I’m similar to Wende and thinking to take my rice protein powder (16 amino acids, Fructose, guar gum, natural vanilla flavour, papain) before and after training. I have no tolerance for dairy-whey. I had an aha when you mentioned BCAAs.

Question: BCAAs are are in the original 8 amino acids. To group them specifically, and take them for growth and repair of the muscles in the body after training (along with my rice protein), would you recommend I take something like BCAA 5000 Powder, a 5,000 mg (5g) blend of the three Branched Chain Amino Acids L-Valine, L-Leucine, and L-Isoleucine?

Cheers for availability of your good knowledge. Thanks.

Hey Joel thank you for a bunch of references, however I am very dissapointed by them, you see most of them mention “protein synthesis”, amino acid fluctuations going in and out of the cells, or glycose levels…one must realize that scientists actually CAN’T measure wheather or not a muscle has actually grown, so they use s surrogate which are protein synthesis, amino acids and so on…You see they can radiate the amino acids so they can monitor their movements in the body and then they conclude that if more amino acids went into the cells than went out of the cells that a greater protein synthesis took place. However amino acids flow can occur for any number of reasons and it really doesn’t have to mean that a muscle actually grew. Also very rarely are these findings done on a long term research let’s say 6 months. Muscle grow is a SLOW process yet everybody measures this in a matter of weeks or even days. I can recommend a book that deals with this in greatrer detail but not here cos I don’t want to promote anything here.

Joel, Thx for the post – can you pls clarify, how much one should put in this post workout drink based on one’s current weight? e.g. I weigh 137 lbs (13% body fat) – how many grams of sugars/whey per pound of bodyweight?

Hey Joel – thanks so much for your answer to my question about no carb protein drink for very overweight moi. I appreciate it and the combo of your meal plan (I am in 1st week of the 19 day “low carbs” part) and the exercise, this old body should wake up and start burning fat! Thanks again.

Wow folks! Some people get really carried away! The reason that you and I are receiving Joel’s emails to begin with is because we are searching for a way to look like he does, or be in better shape, or lose weight…whatever! If you don’t like the way he does it, don’t do it. But….if you want what he has then maybe you should listen to his suggestion and do what he does. It obviously works!

Or more simply said…. If you want what he has then you should do what he does! That is the formula for success!

Hi Joel, Can you recommend the exact amounts based of weight? i.e. how many grams of sugars/whey (in the 2:1 ratio) per pound of body weight? Thx – good info – keep sending more!

Hi Joel, very good article btw. Where can I purchase BCAA’s?

WOW!!! I’m 58 years old, when I was in my mid 30s i had knee surgery. I took up cycling to build my knee back up and enjoyed it so much I did it everyday. I rode 20 to 30 miles a day. After every ride I had a smoothie, with vegetable protein powder and a naner and some form of juice like mango or papaya or peach. This was all the exercise that I did. I lost 50 lbs. I didn’t know about power shakes or muscle building as it didn’t interest me. I rewarded myself with that smoothie for doing my ride. I was hit by a semi truck in 1998 at work and it took me 10 years to get back on my bike. In those 10 years i gained 120 lbs. I lost 70 of them by getting back on my bike and rewarding myself with a whey, fruit, honey, raw egg, almond butter or coconut butter shake. I’m down to 205 now and its been 2 years. You need to look at yourself and decide what works best for you, not everything Joe suggests is for everyone but its his job to put what ever information may help somebody. You need to read it and decide if it works for you. No need to come on here and berate him for posting his opinions and posting information he believes may help someone. No one is forcing you to go out and buy what ever product he’s promoting. I for one like to be told what may help me. Its up to me to try it and decide for myself or find something comparable to use if I can’t afford what is being promoted. I’ve come to learn a lot not just from Joel, but from all the others he has on his buddy list. So thank you Joel for all your hard work and information.

You know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it is true, I personally follow this rule & it works beautifully! I learned by my mentor and he is in Amazingly wonderful shape! it’s just the way it is & we can fight it all we want but you will not get the results needed if you do not follow this rule of thumb.
Best of Luck to you all!

@Joel Marion – Hi Joel, I agree with your concept. I myself do the same, I promote many things and like you I make commissions on some and nothing on others, it’s all a matter of believing in the product and the benefit it brings.

joel some ppl just have no idea what ur talkin about! I mean they get all confused over the most basic concepts of bodybuilding nutrition n they’re prolly so angry at themselves for wasting their money on stupid supplements that they just start lose it when they sense the slightest bit of advertising! what is it suddenly making money is wrong? even if it comes with great free info?

lol. I love it Joel. You always seem to attract so many drama queens. And I didn’t mean that in a ‘gay way’. And hey, y’all, hush. I’m not offended, why are you? The man tries to give us quality information and look at him! Obviously he’s doing something right. So what is he endorses a product he’s tried and thinks is good. You probably told some people about the last good resturaunt you discovered. So what if he makes a couple bucks for doing it. There’s places out there that’ll pay you to do the same thing. Anyway…I digress ;-). I’m glad I’m not tied in a chair with a gun to my head forcing me to read your blog. I’m glad my life is not threatened if I don’t buy the products you mention. I’m bessed that there’s somewhere I can go to get tips and advice. I’m so blessed that I’m allowed to have my own opinion and can express it. But please…if/when i start being so critical and trying to tear apart everything that you say instead of just taking what I can use and leaving the rest, would someone pleasxe just take me out and shoot me! Have a GREAT day y’all

Joel have you read Brad Pilons ” How much protien do we really need” and his research findings regarding the window of opportunity and the post workout protein ? He seems to have researched this quite a bit himself and you both differ in your thoughts. His findings is that creatine would be a much wiser choice to take post workout..

It does honestly look like, from these comments, Joel is being honest here. I agree, the moment an online trainer (especially one that solicits comments) starts pushing off products with referral links, my eyes (or eyes in this case) tend to shut off.

But, Joel’s comments here show he’s definitely here for more than just trying to sell products. It’s pretty obvious from his adamance he’s being honest and he really does recommend Prograde. I admit, Prograde is something I initial turned away on — too many body-builder “infomercial” sites point to it. It immediately gave me the “infomercial” feel. When I get those, I turn away.

After Joel’s comments…I may now take a bit more serious look at them. i currently use a 2:1 malto/protein mix already (from GNC and Cryo-thing) for my workouts. I’m already convinced on their affects. After I upped my carb intake, my gains sky rocketed. And this was after 4months of working out and only loosing weight…
(I’m a “hardgainer”, ectomorph build…I burn carps by reading a book!)

Hey JM, I have a question. I’m 17 years old, weight 143 lbs, and i’m 5.6 tall.
Basically what i want to do is to burn as much calories i can because my goal is to have marked abs. I DO have an active life, i swim 2 hours 3 days a week, and 3 days i go to the gym and do some interval training and lift weights. However, I’m “scared” of losing too much weight in this process of burning fat… so what would you recommend? Keep training as hard as i do? or just wait until i get a little bit older and a little bit heavier… please answer =)

Joel,

If not Prograde then what company (supplement) would be 2nd or 3rd best??

im impressed that Joel’s been able to remain nice towards some of this nonsense. its like some ppl think they are paying Joel for a service…. but really you are getting it for FREE. so take what you want, leave what you dont.

Joel’s recommendations for post workout nutrition are fairly standard in the training world (Berardi, Ferruggia, Ballantyne, Del Monte, among others). In fact, they fall into the category of “conventional thinking”. It surprises me to see so many individuals who have a problem with the recommendations or who were unaware of the importance of post workout nutrition. And gang, if you’re lactose intolerant, take in some other protein source besides whey. Come on.

@Joel Marion –

Thanks for the reply, but it did not address diabetes and insulin resistance at all. The suggested alternatives to whey… let me put it this way… I am allergic to chicken, turkey, milk, casein, eggs and soy. What does that do to high protein needs?? (AND unemployment doesn’t do much for eating grass fed anything!)

Hey I just add some pure cocoa powder to the mix it then tastes great. A really cheap alterative to the store bought stuff.

@Joel Marion – Joel, I trust you and have no problem with you doing mini infomercials on your site if you believe in the product. However I will not buy that product due to its cost…and as you said that is my choice. You offer a great service and I find out alot of great things I would not of ordinarily known were it not for you and your info. Thanks Again and keep up the good work!

@Claire Shouse –

Have a look at this about protein http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x59j4r_episode-23-david-wolfe-on-protein_school

Hey Joel,

I’ve been really busy at work today so I just got a glimpse of this now. I went to the Prograde website because I also have emails from Holly Rigsby. The one thing that surprised me was that the ingredients of the products are the ones used in numerous products in health stores and are organic.

I appreciate you also recommending this Prograde company. I haven’t purchased anything yet but as I do my research, it is good to know others believe in the product and aren’t out there to sell the mulitude of crap like “Acai Berry weight loss” products. That’s a load, I tried it. No results. Luckily, I got my money back. Maybe my immune system was stronger but that’s all, folks. :)

Keep up the good work. Ignore the over-sensitive people. I look forward to your future blogs.

I never post to this site, but enjoy reading the comments as I learn a lot from so many people with their comments, thoughts, suggestions, opinions, etc. That being said, I’m disappointed at the unnecessary rude comments made to Joel. He is not “forcing” anyone to buy anything. He is merely making a recommendation based on his knowledge and experience. Use it, don’t use it. We all have a right to an opinion, some of them by the way that are just that opinions, and not founded on any research other than just picking information elsewhere on websites.
And as for the gay comment, like it or don’t like it. He has a right to say what he wants. Why do people have to tear apart every word the guy says?

C’mon so called “adults”! Let’s treat each other with respect here shall we? The world is screwed up enough without this sort of Joel bashing.

Joel, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. And I get what you mean by your comment. No offense taken here. And I’m glad Joel I didn’t see any earlier comments that have been removed. Too long a day for me to come home and read garbage.
A faithful reader

Hey Joel,

This has nothing to do with your post although I find it very imperative to know and I thank you for that information. I was wondering if it is possible for me to use both your Cheat to Lose diet with Arnel Ricafrancas resistance training. I was wondering if it is too rigorous for CYWT that I wont be able to recover fast enough from it on low carb days.

Thanks, Darryl

Joel,

Thanks for everything you bring out on this forum. This is not the first time I’ve read about this window of opportunity. I have been following it for some time now and it works.

But, wow, I can’t believe all of the crap you had to take just for posting some information about a supplement that you happen to like. It wasn’t like you said “in order to achieve any results, you must use Prograde”. It was just a suggestion.

And as for the “non gay way” comment, lighten up people. Anyone that has read more than one of Joel’s blogs knows that there is a jokingly sarcastic demeanor to about all of his writing. Take the important stuff seriously and use a grain of salt for the rest.

Keep up the great work, Joel. This has been a tremendous help and blessing to my workout and nutritional plans and goals.

Joel, could you just mix a protein with orange juice to get the results your talking about?

Joel — I’d like your honest opinion of Hammer Nutrition’s Recoverite:

2 scoops (49g)
180 calories
0 fat
33 carbs
2 sugars
2.5 sugar alcohol
10 protein
B6 4.8mg
Chromium 30mcg
L-Carnosine 60mg
L-Tyrosine 13.2 mg
Glycine 37.2 mg
L-Glutamine 3000mg

Other ingredients: Maltodextrin, Whey Protein Isolate, Xylitol, Natural Flavor, White Stevia

“Recoverite DOES NOT contain: artificial flavors, colors, or sweeteners, wheat, gluten, added simple sugars, stimulants, fad ingredients or anything unhealthy. If a recovery drink contains any of the above ingredients, it may cause unwanted side effects that may actually hinder your performance or worse.”

“Complex carbohydrates and pure whey protein isolate in ideal 3:1 ratio to help promote maximum glycogen synthesis and muscle tissue rebuilding”

How does this stack up to Prograde, honestly?? Thanks for your opinion and thoughts.

@Joel Marion – Unfortunately maltodextrin and whey protein isolate have the same effect as MSG. I know because I am one of those people who react if these are present in anything I eat. Since they are present in almost everything I normally prepare all my meals from scratch myself. a website to check is truthinlabelling.org. This site helped me find my cure and this is backed up by my doctor

Originally Posted By LeatteWow folks! Some people get really carried away! The reason that you and I are receiving Joel’s emails to begin with is because we are searching for a way to look like he does, or be in better shape, or lose weight…whatever! If you don’t like the way he does it, don’t do it. But….if you want what he has then maybe you should listen to his suggestion and do what he does. It obviously works!

Or more simply said…. If you want what he has then you should do what he does! That is the formula for success!

That is SOOOO dumb, I am sorry to say. No, you should not do EXACTLY what Joel does. You are not Joel and what works for him may not work for you at all. Listen, learn, modify and experiment.
I drink milk, 2 cups, within one hour after the weight lifting workout. Simple carb and enough protein.

This is very true based on personal experience, but i think you should eat good the rest of the day too to maximize your gain.

This i what drink after my workout:

- 2 scoops Whey Protein
- 10g of Dymatize BCAA complex 5050
- 15-17g Dextrose poweder
- 1 table spoon of Coconut oil

Than I eat a real meal.

If you have not used a good protein shake after your workout followed by a good meal – than I strongly suggest you do it BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING that this does not work, because it does.

And if you really want to increase muscle building include this in your EVERYDAY DIET, also add this before sleep:

- 2scoops of no carb protein
- 10g of Dymatize BCAA 5050 (Dymatize BCAA are very good)

See what happens to your weights in a gym after 1 week. – I personally guarantee a 3 rep increase in every exercise IN ONE OF YOUR WORKOUT DAYS. And after you will see an increase in the rest of your workout days. Simple because it will take time until you hit that body part while using this new diet technique.

I have to smile reading many of the above comments. Comments like there is only one study that proves the 30 minute window “theory”. Check out a book called Nutrient Timing by John Ivy, Ph.D and Robert Portman, Ph.D.

The concern about insulin response to simple sugar ingestion. Intense exercise increases the ease at which sugar is driven into muscle cells. The cells are more permeable immediately post exercise. Protein piggy backs with the sugar to get into the muscle cell with the sugar replenishing muscle glycogen and providing protein for repair and growth. But back to the simple sugar insulin concern. Because the muscle cell is more “accepting” of the sugar immediately post intense exercise there is significantly less insulin required to drive that sugar into the muscle cell. This is a critical piece of the puzzle. In fact this is one of the most important mechanisms by which intense exercise benefits diabetics.

If Joel wants to recommend a quality product like Prograde and make a commission in the process I say all the more power to him. I myself have recommended Prograde to my clients. I also tell them they can get a good quality whey protein and use gatorade rain for the sugar supply. 16 ounces of Gatorade Rain will provide about 32 grams of simple sugar. A scoop of whey protein powder (depending on brand) will give you some where around 16 grams of protein. That’s a 2:1 ratio. It works. It is a pain and it doesn’t mix that great (I know because thats what I use to do myself) and the taste is so so but it does work.

I think there are a lot of things that people should be bickering about and Joel pushing Pro Grade Nutrition is not one of them. We ALL have our favorites in everything I personally like Beverly Internationals Ultimate Muscle Protein but that is MY prefrence so please people Joel is trying to offer help to us all and if he can make a buck or two so be it …. this is america and he has that right.

thanks,

Hi, Joel,
I’ve just finished reading all of the comments about the Prograde pre/post exercise drink. After reading the list of ingredients, I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole. There ar FAR too many sugars for me, as I am a diabetic and from time to time have blood glucose problems. I have just gotten pretty good contol after several months of battling the problem. The type of insulin that I use stays in the body for 24 hours and the doctor has shifted me back and forth to different insulins that have a 16 hour ‘duration’; this means 2 injections a day rather than one. Diabetics have a horrible time losing weight (which would benefit their insulin problems). I recently found a supplement that works wonders for me – take it twice a day and I was very pleased a week ago when they weighed me at the DR’s office and I had lost 10 pounds (in about a month). I just learned that you can take more of this to gain faster results, but I will stick to the plan. The amount of insulin I use is gradually decreasing. Soooo, I am happy and still losing and getting OLDER. Hoping to get more energy and motivation so that I can resume exercising.
Will

Thanks for clearing that up Joel! As someone who is new to taking protein supplements, (started last month- trying to sculpt), I am thirsty for information that can help me. I was finding myself swayed by the negative comments! You have now more than adequately explained everything and I appreciate it! Thanks again! All the best.

I love your information, Joel.

I’m not saying I don’t agree that its a great product…I’m just saying that Customs charges an exorbitant amount to release it to me. That’s my only real reason to not buy it again!

Joel is quite correct! I am one of those so called old folk at almost 60 years of age and I keep in excellent shape with great muscles etc and I do just that have that most important meal or shake between one hour after I train. So when people try to share things that work don’t be knocking them cause you can. So eat well, keep strong and have joy in your life…..

hi Joel I simply want to know that as i am trying to loose weight & doing moderate exercise (body weight & aerobic) Should I have to take postworkout drink as you suggested. will it not increase my weight.

He Joel,

I appreciate you posting al those studies. It’s a pity that you didn’t include them the first time. (Would have saved a lot of comments)

There is a problem though: Entire books with “evidence” have been written about all sorts of things like how a vegan diet, eating meat, eating raw, eating 6 or more small meals a day, fasting and then eating one meal a day is best and so on.
Now I am not saying that all your studies don’t mean a damn, but just citing some studies is not enough. A good article/book should discuss more sides of the story with an equal amount of effort put in to them. (so in this case: citing studies that prove and disprove the value of peri-workout nutrition and the existence of the window of opportunity or letting believers of both sides have their say)

Do you have some articles like these for me? I would like to read them to help me make up my mind about the need for peri-workout nutrition.
Right now I still have questions about all this stuff….

Thanks!!

@Will –

Will, what is this supplement that you take? I am diabetic too and although i have excellent shape on my legs and upper body, i have a horrible time losing weight around my stomach where i inject. No amount of exercise and healthy eating seems to work so i am looking for a supplement to help me along but obviously so many of them arent suitable for us diabetics!

I just thought of something:

Why not start a discussion about peri workout drinks with Brad Pilon? (writer of ‘eat stop Eat’ and ‘How much protein’)

You have very different views and both read lots of studies.

ps. I just want to say also to everyone who has been getting their backs up, please dont have a go at Joel, all he is doing is offering his advice to people (for free at that), and you dont have to take it if you dont want to! I know I cant take this shake he is recommending because im a diabetic, but that doesnt mean it isnt good for other people! Be smart enough to know whats good for you and what isnt, and then glean what helpful information you can from Joel’s knowledge. At the end of the day, he isnt forcing you to do anything, but you can always give it a try!

Wow, people, get a life! Some of the comments blew me away at how nasty and negative they were. I agree with Jaime, go outside, get off of your computer.
Since when did it become evil or bad to promote a product? He wasn’t duping or fooling anyone. he was only recommending a product that he believes in, uses himself, and that has integrity. Joel has integrity and is in this business because of his expertise. If you don’t trust him, why are you here? And as far as the “gay” comment goes, pleeeaaasseee! Some people will find fault with anything they can. Joel has always used a sense of humor in his writing. I really can’t believe that anyone would take it offensively, as he totally didn’t say it that way. Let’s just all live and let live, okay?

Hehe as a trainer i get asked this question all the time. Honestly, I think it is one of the most debated topics in the industry at the time. There are contradicting studies and research every day. I have heard everything from “it is essential” to “3 chicken breasts are fine.” I have tried slamming dextrose and whey post workout, i have tried energy bars, i have tried just whey, i have tried just Gatorade…. and now i am at 1 scoop whey, bcaas, 1 cup milk and 1 cup oatmeal. I haven’t really seen a difference in any of them. I would probably say that i have actually had the most gains while on the oatmeal concoction. I think that insulin is appropriate for meso and ectomorphs, however, i don’t think endomorphs will really benefit from it. As I’m sure you know, your Glut-4 receptors are primed for uptake after a workout, so any glucose will already be shuttled into your cells. I have also recently seen that whey protein is actually better mixed with an egg or casein base, as it is absorbed too quick by the body so you don’t get its full potential. There are also studies showing that whey itself is absorbed so fast that it creates its own insulin spike so sugar isn’t needed. I think insulin may help out with overall gains, mostly in ectomorphs as their insulin levels will quickly fall after the spike. However, for endomorphs, who keep their insulin high for much longer, and are much more sensitive to glucose, it almost seems counter productive. For endomorphs i would suggest building LEAN mass, not mass. I think its important to specify the target group, as most endo’s are in a constant battle to lose weight more than they are to gain muscle. Also, i noticed all the “gurus’ online (vince, jason F, Jeff anderson…) are ecto’s, with great programs for them, but i have yet to see an endomorph “guru”. Know of anyone?

Wow, Joel you certainly hit a nerve! I cannot believe how twisted people get over a topic that has always been debated. Everyone needs to do whats right for them and if you take tips from joel (obviously someone you trust or you wouldnt be reading his blog) and make it work for you…wheres the harm? Everyone is different, bodies respond differently, people need to lose weight, gain weight, whatever your goals are, are different from Joels or anyone for that matter. So everyone chill and take the information that works for you. No need to attack someone who is merely trying to guide you in a direction that will lead to a healthier, more fit lifestyle.

I am in the industry and read loads of fitness/nutrition information and personally feel there is alot of crap out there. I think Joel is right on the money.

I am a Personal trainier and Boot camp instructor and also a fan of Prograde. I tell my clients and campers about it, because they need and ask for direction and I want to help them….not b/c Im trying to push some product on them. I happen to think Prograde is a high quality product and trust me Ive tried alot over the years. I would NEVER suggest something I have not tried or believe in and Im guessing Joel is the same. So, take it for what it is…..a suggestion. If you want to try it, great! If not, take the rest of the great info he provides and run with it.

Keep up the great info, Joel. I enjoy your blog very much……and given the number of responses you get….so does everyone else ; )

Do you have to drink this during the workout? Can you just drink it prior to the workout?

Joel, you better NOT be swayed by the .1% negativity. Your posts are incredible and I need you to keep them coming! You are the bomb!

@Joel Marion – yeah joel, i don’t think you should be phased by the small portion of negativity and criticism, in my opinion i don’t see how they can criticise you when the results you are promoting are being shown by yourself. :)

You can drink the shakes right before, during, and after. I think that some people are taking what Joel is saying out of context, as if he is saying if you dont do this then you wont acheive results. This combination of a high GI carb and a fast digesting protien will speed up your results and make your workout more effecient. You can achieve results just by working out and eating healthy foods, it just takes longer.
One of the benefits of doing this is to immediately get your muscles to start the recovery process instead of waiting.
An example of a company that uses this technique to make a billions of dallars is Gatorade. Incase you havnt noticed, gatorade is mostly sugar. It is not good for you to drink it unless you are doing a physical activity. That is what it is made for. Think about it…

@Natalie UK
Hi, Natalie,
It has taken me longer than expected to answer your post – Microsoft butted in with an important update that DESTROYED my efforts. To answer your question: The product is called Primal Force Primal Lean. I just looked at the site and it appears that they DO ship to the UK. It is kind of pricey – but, Hey, what isn’t these days???
The Primal Force products are private label items of Al Sears, MD who has a clinic in Royal Palm Beach, Florida. I have purchased his book about sunlight (comes by E-mail , about 188 pages to print.) I also got his PACE book. It is large too. Primal Lean is relatively new and he has run out and had to wait for more batches to be made. It is made in northeastern US and is shipped from there.
My experience with Primal Lean has been good, so far. If you have done much dieting, you know that the fat comes off of your extremities FIRST, then the loss works its way toward the remainder of the body. I don’t envy your abdominal injections. I do it where I can SEE – in the top of my thigh close to the knee…..
In what part of the UK do you live? I have been over once many ears ago and did a little touring in the Southeastern area.
Regards, Will wilhir@att.net

I guess no one answered Natalie UK’s cry for help to lose weight as a diabetic. I am also in the same boat. My legs and Upper body are all chiseled but I cannot lose an ounce from my waist / gut area no matter what i do. I bought Joel’s Cheat your way thin program and then I had to return it since my doctor yelled at me. Does anyone have any clue as to how to lose weight while being a diabetic. Thank you.

@Will –

Will, please, please tell me what that suppliment is that you take lately and lost 10 pounds. I am a type 2 diabetic and have terrible problem with weight. to keep it under control, i have literally given up on carbs; which inturn is not making me gain any muscles regardless of how hard i work out.

Hi Joel, I live in Sweden and Swedes in general are very thorough and quality driven. So when a Swedish whey protein product (made and marketed in Sweden) claims to be made out of the best quality products, I’m inclined to believe them. I found one and if I can make it work, it’ll be more convenient than getting stuff from an american retailer, online or not. This Swedish brand I found is sweetened with aspartam, though. Your thoughts on that? Will it be as efficient as something sweetend w destrosol or malto?
This is what they list as ingredients:
Cross Flow Microfiltrerad Whey Protein Isolate, Ion Exchange Whey Protein Isolate, Ultrafiltrerad Whey Protein Concentrate, L-Glutamin, Kreatin monohydrate, Taurin, natural flavours, Aspartam, Aselufam K.
Thanks for clearing things out! :)

Wow – what a hornet’s nest that disturbed! It shows what a host of misinformation is out there concerning supplementation – best to reflect on the old adage that “you get what you pay for” in the fitness world [as in every aspect of life]. Well done Joel in stirring things up and shooting down some of the myths flying around.
Keep up the good work.
John

@Joel Marion –

Joel, thank you for this post. I appreciate that someone with expertise on the subject such as yourself is giving away free information like this. I’ve always kind of wanted to do something similar myself, but in no way have the education to do so (yet). Even if I did, I think the bitter people responding in posts such as these would probably make me stop in the matter of weeks.

On the subject of this post, I think I may switch to ProGrade, but I was wondering if you know or have heard anything about GNC’s products? Specifically this product http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3509954&cp=2167077.2108319.2108294

I noticed that the carb content in it is not really 2:1…thanks in advance for any information you can give me.

Some of your readers remind me of Soapbox Corner in London. They want to get on their soapbox and criticize just for criticizing sake. they might know a few big, technical words, read something somewhere and they are experts.

I live half a world away from the States, have a degree in Kinesiology which is several years old. What Joel and others like Craig and Vince write about is far different from what I learned. New technology has really made learning so more exciting.

For those who try to rubbish the content of one article, whatever the subject might be, need to just open their mind before their mouth through their keyboard. Alternately, if they feel they know so much just start your own fitness/ weight loss website and put the likes of Joel out of business.

@jamie – I think it is OK for non-gays to identify themselves as such. It is important for married, and otherwise attached, women to identify themselves, too.

@Joel Marion

“Research has shown that combining these simple sugars and fast action proteins in a 2:1 ratio yields the greatest results.”

I have looked at the list of research you posted, but I could not find the research you used in your article that showed the best results with the 2:1 ratio of carbs and protein.
Could you please tell me which one it is ?

Ps: After I looked at your list and searched on pubmed for studies involving peri-workout drinks I got to say that a lot of the research does not allow us to make good conclusions. (No placebo or control groups, only done on rats, only blood work, way too little test groups, only looked at glycogen resynthesis not protein synthesis and so on)

I think the best study showing the importance of peri-workout carb/pro drink is this on:

Cribb PJ, Hayes A. Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006;38:1918–1925.

After 10 weeks of training the test subjects that drank their protein/creatine/glucose supplement Pre and Post to their workout had significantly bigger type II fibers than the subjects that drank the same supplement but in the morning and evening.

Unfortunately, I only found the abstract, but still impressive real-world results.

Well, I am a bit late on my post, but I thought I would give my opinion. First of all, I trust Joel. He has been there, done that and bought the t-shirt. He transformed his body and I respect him for that. I love that he has recommended prograde to me. It got me off of a lot of other useless crap supplements and I really like prograde. Whether or not he gets a commision on this, who cares?! It is a great product. Joel is not the only one who trusts it. All the blogs and sites I have been to say it is great (of course most of them are friends of Joel). I really respect Joel, and I love his posts. He has a lot of integrity and he is very level headed.

For those of us on a budget, how about mixing whey protein concentrate with 100% fruit juice?

Whey concentrate is considerably cheaper than isolate, and 100% fruit juice is cheap and readily available at any grocery store.

Joel, your thoughts?

What about honey instead of dextrose? Wouldn’t it be just as fast and more natural, get you some minerals and enzymes in the hbargain?

Speaking of breakfast. Everytime I get on your site, I BADLY want that pink frosted donut! Joel, maybe you could put pictures of healthy food on your blog instead to encourage us!

Well said… totally agree with everything you said… in particular the “non-gay” comment. Its almost as if Joel is a bit homophobic, maybe not, but it wasn’t necessary for him to clarify his thought.

Prograde makes great products, however you can buy high quality malto/dextrose and the whey protein of your choice. I agree with the workout drink and most every professional trainer will recommend this — but keep the calories low if you are in a cutting / fat loss phase.

Originally Posted By LeeI was with you on your thinking until you started pushing this Prograde stuff, Joel. If you can come up with the same logic without us needing to invest in this company that you’re hooked up, I’ll be more willing to follow you. I also didn’t appreciate that you had to add “in a non-gay way” ~ as if you were afraid that by expressing your love for a friend that you’d be ashamed that we might think you were gay. Nothing to be ashamed of, whether you are gay or not. And if I can’t get my body in shape without buying Prograde, I’m in trouble.

Hi,
I will soon begin on your CYWT Program (bought the Holiday Deluxe Package) but I live in Denmark and can’t see why I should use Prograde Nutrition products. I get my daily multi-vitamin and fish oil supplements and have gotten so for 2-2½ years now, with other words ever since I started doing resistance training with a more serious mindset. As I’m really into the basic daily supplements and nutrition in general I’m sure that my multi-vitamin and my fish oil capsules will make a good substitute for the Prograde counterparts..

But, my real question is about the pre/during/post workout shake and the pre-bedtime shake. Can I just use my current product instead: http://www.bodyman.dk/shop/bodylab-whey-80-586p.html (I know the website’s in Danish but I hope you can understand the nutrients).. It’s a Danish companys product. It’s thoroughly tested and approved and is one of the cleanest products on the Danish market and is a 100% legal (we have strict rules over here). My idea was to take 1 serving of the protein powder and mix it with a maltodextrin product for the wo shake, but probably only in a 1:1 mix in the beginning as I’m still a bit “afraid” of too much sugar. I might want to add here that I’ll start on your friend Vince DelMonte’s No Nonsense Muscle Building Program at the same time as I will begin on CYWT, does this call for any other special precautions or whatever?

When it comes to the pre-bedtime shake I’m a bit torn apart. According to what I’ve read and know it would seem like a normal whey protein shake is not the right choice at night – wouldn’t one be better of with a slow release casein product to prolong protein synthesis throughout the entire sleep instead of “spiking” protein synth even before you’ll be in bed.

Oh, and btw – one more question. As I’m only 18 years old and still in high school, won’t it be difficult for me to follow your CYWT Program.. I’m especially thinking about finding the time for making a good and solid breakfast (I know about and understand the upmost importance of this meal) and how to implement your choices of lunch instead of my normal whole grain breads with some cold meat and lettuce or last nights pasta dish left-overs?

As prograde is not available in South Africa, and they do not ship here….what alternative HIGH QUALITY brand can I go for? What do you think about Optimum Nutrition?

There are many of us that would like to have the answer to alternatives to Prograde Nutrition since they do not ship here – many thanks

Lauren wrote:

As prograde is not available in South Africa, and they do not ship here….what alternative HIGH QUALITY brand can I go for? What do you think about Optimum Nutrition?

@ Morten:

Bodylab whey would be okay. But right after training you need some more carbs. I would take a weight gainer (but only right after training). In denmark you can get Viking Weight Gainer which consist og 35g whey protein and the rest is a blend of maltodextring and dextrose which will do the job right after intense workout.

As you say whey protein is not perfect for night time shake. I would recommend you a Kasein protein before going to bed (again a link to a Danish shop).

I think bodylab also makes the same products but not sure.

Can I simply say what a relief to search out person who really realizes what they may be discussing on the web. You certainly get experience to bring a difficulty to light and enable it to be very important. More people require to study it all and understand this particular section of the story. I cant believe you are not more popular as you essentially have the gift.